We all have to stand together on this concept – We are all valuable people who do valuable work who NEED to get paid!!

Thanks again!

I remember a few months ago when I made this resolution, I started to think of the pros & cons of my decision and realized that even though, doing certain stuff for free could very well be a way to get exposure in new markets, you still need to see beyond that & analyze the cost-benefit of your decision. For the the independent worker/freelancer/consultan/entrepreneur it goes beyond the point of getting some economical retribution or not, it’s a matter of prescence & reputation. If you start to self yourself short and don’t analyze all of your options, you may end up hurting your brand & image.

Every single step that you take as an independent worker whatever your label is should be recognized, period.

(sorry for any typos. Working fom the iPhone this week )

If a non-profit can’t afford to pay me, I may make an exception and not charge. If the community needs something I may give them that for “free” but there’ll be a point where I’ll get retribution.

Bottom line – it’s easier to give away things for free when your basic needs are met. Between giving a blanket to a shelter and keeping it if I can’t pay a heat bill, I think I’d keep the blanket. And I triple-dare anyone to refute that.

For me I go back to my roots, for when I’m coaching a high school team for a season for free (they don’t have extra money). Though ifs its a program or anything to do with adults I would like to be paid something but I don’t demand that I’m worth so much an hour.

Heck I’m happy if I enough money to pay for parking and or gas.

And people do it.
Writing on the web/soc med etc won’t get any respect (thank you Mr. Dangerfield) while people keep doing stuff for free or for product.

And this is from someone like me who has been guilty of this.

Businesses will be happy with quantity over quality while they can.

None of us should feel bad for charging money. We all like to eat food, have a warm place to live, have clothes, and other niceties. I don’t think IGA would be too happy if I wandered in grabbed some milk and said “but hey you know, we’re friends, can you just do this…”.

We’re a talented group of experts. We have amazing experiences to relate to others. And that has value. So, when I start asking many of you to be a guest speaker in my class this term you should know that BCIT pays an honourarium. I value your time and so does BCIT. And I’ll probably at least buy you coffee too .

I have a film / theatre degree, and I still wind up in conversations with people where they tell me that I must be in film for the money. I have always responded, ‘no, I simply want to make enough money to not have to work another job’. This is very much how I feel about the larger Arts in general which I consider social media part of.

Right now social media media (especially our favorite tool twitter) is poised on this weird brink where it is half way between fad and a true movement of expression. If we want to try and push it all the way into this realm of expression we need to be able to dedicated real time to get real innovation. Which ultimately means we need to get paid to do it.

My fear is for the larger scope, which Hilary mentioned, our community. People seem to be burning out, and I think it is because everyone is having to work ridicules hours just to make ends meat. I know the saying is that necessity Is the mother of invention, and poverty is the mother of necessity, but that is what has already brought out community together. If we have bigger and better dreams, like I know many of us do, for our community and the impact social media can have on the world we need to find ways to get paid so we can properly build it up.

I’m a Realtor in Langley- not writer (as you will quickly discern) however I can relate.

People think that Realtors make money hand over fist by simply posting a sign and filling out a little paper work. NOT SO! We work very hard and long hours as our clients expect us to be at their beck and call and can spend months on one deal and can even go months between deals (last year!) We DO work for free until the deal completes – IF it completes.

We are required for our expertise and knowledge as we are imersed in the industry every day and are held to the same professional standard as doctors and lawyers…however we do not bill by the hour.

We have extremely large dues just for the privilege of carrying a license and I haven’t even begun to touch on my marketing costs…and yet EVERYONE seems to expect free advice about the market and EVERYONE wants a reduction in my commission. I struggle with this.

Now it would be foolish of me not to share and barter and network as everyone else here has discussed, and indeed that is how I have built my business, but at some point my commission must stand. I work very hard for it and in fact I need to pay my bills as well.

Thanks Raul for making the point and I for one see the value!
Cheers!

That said, choosing to volunteer or mentor for a valuable organization is up to you. Just be sure you’re making the choice.

Ultimately, however, it’s up to all of us to be brave enough to charge what we’re worth.

I’m sorry, but “exposure” doesn’t pay the bills. While I have no problem giving back to the community by helping out a local non-profit or charity, I will not do the same for any for-profit organization. Just because I’m a “freelance” writer does not mean that I will work for free.

I wanted to answer one point of Hilary’s which is the ‘getting burnt out’ bit. Particularly because I feel that it’s a really important point to be discussed (not that the others that have been raised before).

I have, as I mentioned above, done a lot for free for the community. The community has given back to me as well. We all share, we all give. That’s still my motto. But the question remains (and it’s associated with “getting burnt out”) – how much free is good enough? When do we separate the “ok, I can totally translate four sentences for you, not a problem” to “are you seriously asking me to translate a full page for you for free?”

Lots (and I mean LOTS) of people have done stuff for me and I haven’t paid them back in cash. But they do know that I follow the honor system and I’ve referred business to them, or given them recommendations, and so on. That’s the “I scratch your back, you scratch mine”.

What really got me thinking about this (and as I said, this was a conversation I was having with myself a few months ago) was the presumption that, just because I’m Hummingbird604, the community builder, the socialite, I was supposed to do things for free. My research skills, and my writing skills are valuable. I paid many thousands of dollars for my education and training. I expect retribution. My clients know that. I just didn’t want to have this lost in the translation.

I co-organized Mental Health Camp with Isabella Mori because I was moved by the courage of those who spoke at Coping Digitally. I don’t have a stake in mental health issues. I just wanted to help, and give back to a community that has built exactly the reputation that Hilary indicates. I have built a following because, in many ways, of the free work I have done (and continue to do).

But the point I raised, and that’s something that I think is getting lost, is that while many people maintain 9-5 jobs that are secure, freelancers and contractors have to fight much more to make ends meet, in my opinion. It’s really easy to give away things for free (particularly our knowledge) when putting food on the table doesn’t hinge on whether you give away that bit of knowledge that is valuable.

The fact is – as Kerry indicated,

finding a price and finding someone to pay that price has been made very hard in a world where everyone thinks they can write or thinks they are soc med experts.

– this translates to EVERY field.

I expect to continue to do some work for free, but it will be on my terms, and it won’t be because people assume I’m going to work for free for them. Indeed, people know by now that if I do something and I don’t charge, it’s because I see the value in it (I’ve done LOTS of charitable work for free).

This is a great conversation, and as everyone has said, it’s one that should have been had long time ago. Keep the comments coming.

I also cannot imagine being paid to live blog…but mainly because I haven’t really bought into it yet..same like the live tweeting….I don’t really get it.

I personally would rather read a well thought out and well written summary of an event.

But people have carved themselves niches in this new arena and that is the power of making yourself and your ’skill’ sound indispensable.

The whole social media/blogging etc has opened up the world to a lot of people who really can’t write or shouldn’t be consulting or freelancing etc…

Finding a price and finding someone to pay that price has been made very hard in a world where everyone thinks they can write or thinks they are soc med experts.

Quality writing no longer get the respect it should.

This makes it tough for the consultants and freelancers out there.

Skill and respect are tough to hang onto in this fast changing field.

Like Lois says (and Raincoaster gets at this as well), when you’re passionate about a vocation, particularly in the arts and media, you expect to start out working for free. It’s almost a badge of honour. This is true in the film industry, where I worked many a long 18-hour day, busting my ass and proving my worth knowing someone was noticing. Paying your dues is similar to the concept of apprenticing and affords the opportunity to work with top-notch people who teach you along the way. I wouldn’t trade those experiences in.

That is very different from what you’re discussing here however, Raul. And likely because social media is such a new industry. The fact that you are a professional with your own following already, buoyed by an audience who willingly accesses your tweets, blogs, speaking engagement, etc. means you don’t need to do the free work that increases your exposure or reputation.

And I like your response to these requests – because I’ve asked you myself on occasion for the fruits of your knowledge – you courteously show your openness and delight to being asked, but ultimately do not accept the “job.”

But that said, social media is different in another way: it’s ensconced in a culture of “nice” – scratch my back, I’ll scratch yours. That “pay it forward” concept that has been mentioned before truly does have a foothold in this industry. The more we collaborate, the greater our reach, the more trust is instilled, the better our (yeah I’ll say it) karma. This truly is a concept that translates into more business. And precisely because the greatest asset of any social media practitioner is their own reputation. Their own authenticity, too.

So, while I am humbled by this discussion and know it will inform how I relate and interact with the wonderful bloggers who contribute to GranvilleOnline.ca going forward, I also don’t want Vancouver’s social media industry to start spiraling down Cynical Lane.

By nature, you are social, engaged creatures who jump to get involved because of your passion for people and community. Don’t lose that because you’re getting burnt out.

Take Raul’s lead, be gracious and flattered. And then do what you have to do.

Thanks, Hilary

A common practice among those friends is the “work trade.” You do something for me (shoot a promo video for my business), I do something for you (light carpentry in your reno). Not a new concept, but not one I hear among my city friends as much.

It’s not written down, it’s a handshake and a smile, but it’s a contract of sorts. The trade isn’t immediate, but it builds relationships (and sometimes businesses) and seems to work pretty well.

I understand the dilemma well, it’s as if this economy has somehow granted free rights for major corporations to seek breaks–please read free–at par with the requests of the neighbourhood non-profit.

I agree with Shane, it’s about your ability to negotiate.

This holds especially true for me, as I live in a low cost of living area. My neighbors and local businesses would never be able to afford my services at my regular rates.

Another issues i noticed was for a long while we have far more clients and potential clients than we could ever handle. One way to slow down the onslaught was to (you guessed it) raise our rates.

The thing is, my clients DO know that they have to pay the full rate. And the negotiations are very clear. This is how much work I can do for these many hours of work. That’s not really very problematic.

My post originated actually a few months ago, not in September 2009. I kept putting it off and rescheduling it and re-scheduling it (thank you WordPress scheduling function) until I completely forgot that it was due to be published on September 30th. And while I was at a client meeting, the post got published. So be it. Maybe it was high time to have the discussion!

I do some work for free, still, particularly in the social media world. So do many of my friends. There IS value in doing some work for free, but definitely NOT everything.

Building goodwill and giving back to the community is important, true. But even more important, I think, is to value oneself’s work and its worth. It’s not an easy discussion but it’s one I think should be had.

If the “internship” phase of your professional career is over, you should use your own discerning intellect to decide when you want to do work for free. Most working professionals who have experience, knowledge and respect from their peers no longer need to do free work to get recognition or credibility – they just do it out of goodwill or support for a cause.

This is a completely different topic from “nishkaam seva” (Punjabi for ’selfless service’). True selfless service is performed anonymously for a good cause and we all do this in our lives out of our core humanity and love for good causes. When you do selfless service, it is for a noble cause. When you willingly help a righteous cause like a charity or church with their project, you feel a sense of purpose and humility in doing volunteer work. You can’t do selfless service for corporate interests, that don’t respect your knowledge and are simply taking advantage of you. That is not service, that is exploitation.

But I too have recently “stopped” working for free. I say “stopped” because there are still times when I will – fundraisers for causes I believe in, projects with my friends that I want to take on and in a way support financially by volunteering my time. But with companies that I know have some money I expect something. If nothing else, my time and knowledge are of value.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj5IV23g-fE

And there are lots of bloggers, tweeters, livebloggers, etc, who will do it for free. And they’re not as good as we are, my friends. It’s our responsibility to tell the world our value, because to civilians (yes, I still use that word) we all look alike. Part of becoming prosperous is learning how to easily and professionally let people know just how good you are. Once they know you’re in the top ten thousand on Technorati, or you’ve got 40,000 real Followers who pay attention to you, or you’ve won literary or journalism awards for things you wrote on the web, they’ll know you’re worth more than JoeBlowHaircutBlogger.

I recently pitched a blogging project at, effectively, barista wages, but the project is a trial for a much larger project and I made it very, very clear I was only doing this because I know this project will demonstrate its value immediately AND that I had no intention of continuing for the same wages once that proof was established and accepted by head office. They already know there’s another negotiation coming. And they know my corporate consulting rate, to the penny. And yes, every January it goes up a little.

Every time I see Boris Mann he tells me to triple my rates. The last time, he told me to double them. I think I’m making progress.